Salvo Rizza
The tension-space called Des Phemmes
“Fall-Winter 2023/24 is a back to basics. A conversation between the three-year-old me and the me of today.”
It’s about a personal history, of what surrounds us that ultimately partly defines who we are. Des Phemmes, a brand founded by Salvo Rizza, tells the creative person’s tale, his affections, his women, but also his ‘obsessions’. A very precise aesthetic that is generated by the tension of opposites, and Salvo creates a kind of daily couture ‘designed for women’. A brand that is growing vertiginously, loved by stars and customers who buy it on the coolest luxury platforms on the internet, such as Moda Operandi. From Paris and Haute Couture, Salvo landed in Milan where he put down the roots of his brand, which he sees as a third lung. But when asked if he would like to design for another brand, he confesses that he would, but “I would like a brand with a story that I can immerse myself in and then bring back to the surface with a contemporary vocabulary”. We talked about fashion and its meaning, but also about his future fall-winter 2023/24 collection that he will present during Milano Moda Donna in February.
How did your brand Des Phemmes start?
The truth is that I never wanted to do a brand. It was something that happened by chance, perhaps by astral alignment. I have never had the ambition to have my own project, I have always worked for others. As you go on in your career, however, the need to tell your own story grows inside you, especially when you live off the reflection and creativity of others: I worked for Giambattista Valli and many others, but in those situations I always told someone else’s story, not mine. When you decide to start up something of your own, however, you ask yourself: “Where do I start from, what shall I talk about?”, it’s normal to wonder…
And you, where did you start from? What is your brand about?
My brand is about my affections: it is a story about me, my history and the women who are part of my path in life. Then we have my visual ‘obsessions’: 90s photography, Kate Moss, Juergen Teller, old Prada campaigns, Helmut Lang and Calvin Klein (also from the 90s). By trying to combine all these elements, and making them coexist, I gave birth to Des Phemmes.
Brand name has a very interesting history, what does it mean?
I wanted to include a reference to femininity or at least to women in the name, so initially I wanted to call it femmes, but it seemed a bit obvious so I added ‘Ph’ in front. A new word that sounds like French, but actually isn’t. Then I added ‘des’ (in French) to further emphasise the link with the feminine hemisphere, but also to pay homage to my origins: in fact, I started working in Paris, so I was pleased to find a bit of my work in the name.
What is the brand aesthetic?
In my work there is a notion of ‘tension’ that arises between opposite hemispheres: man and woman, minimalism and maximalism. In that space in between, in that tension, there is a new universe that makes design interesting. So in my collections you find very simple garments enriched, however, by contrasts: details, ‘flaws’ or disproportions that immediately make the garment more interesting. It is all about tension which gives life to something new. So the ‘defect’ becomes an enhancement, it becomes a sign of uniqueness.
A tension that is also between Haute Couture and Prêt-à-Porter, two worlds converging in your collections
That was the idea: to bring that kind of expertise (of Couture, ed.) to Prêt-à-Porter. For example, taking a denim cargo trouser and embroidering it entirely by hand becomes an emblem of two opposites. Or, the item that most represents Des Phemmes today is the embroidered tie dye T-shirt, an item that everyone has in their wardrobe, but in my case it is dyed and embroidered by hand. So you have Couture on an item that is totally ready to wear.
What was it like to translate the world of Haute Couture onto ready-to-wear pieces? And what was the feedback from the press and buyers when they first saw your pieces?
My idea was to start from some concepts of Couture and eliminate the more complex part. To create, in its own way, a daytime haute couture. Very elaborate garments on shapes that are daily. As for the feedback, when I presented Des Phemmes to the various salespeople and press, the reaction was one of perplexity.
You have stated in the past that your brand has ‘a focus on the photographic ’90s imagery, linked to the idea of youth and subversive femininity represented by Kate Moss’. In the contemporary world, who embodies this idea?
In the early 90s, when Kate Moss first appeared on The Face with Corinne Day’s photos, she was a completely anomalous beauty for the canons of the time where Linda Evangelista or Claudia Schiffer were around. Kate was the opposite, an alien beauty. Today, the concept of beauty is much wider, but perhaps the woman who represents those values today is Zendaya.
Des Phemmes has grown a lot in the last years. It is distributed in several online luxury shops and has collaborated with Moda Operandi for a capsule. What is the key to its success?
I think it’s because it’s a brand really designed for women, and they feel good when they wear it. Another thing is the pricing: I never wanted to create an unaffordable super-luxury brand. I pay a lot of attention to the commercial side, a brand today needs a revenue to survive. So you can star from the concept of the collection, but then it has to become real and translatable. Finally the image, I am really obsessed with that.
What are your target markets?
Mainly America and Italy.
Talking about the brand, it can also be worn by men. Who is the Des Phemmes man?
The Des Phemmes man is anyone who wants to wear the brand. They are garments that I have partly made from my wardrobe and of course they also fit men. Including a model in the lookbook (for spring-summer 2023, ed.) was a bit of a coincidence. As a designer you have to design garments that each person can then interpret in their own way, showing their individuality. So I don’t design specifically with a Des Phemmes man in mind, but for anyone who feels free to wear them.
You have said in the past: ‘Today, creativity is no longer a sufficient condition, but you need strong entrepreneurial skills’. Is Salvo more of a creative or an entrepreneur?
More an entrepreneur. Today if a brand works it is because, yes, it has a good image and good communication, but also because the creative director oversees everything. You have to have entrepreneurial skills: in the past, designers used to make good drawings and the sales came in, today that is no longer the same. The market is so full that you also have to be an entrepreneur to express your own. You have to be creative, but you also have to be able to communicate and have a story to tell. You have to mediate your creativity with what is real.
In the fashion there are different realities, for example Armani on one side and Ludovic de Saint Sernin on the other. Some of these are often criticised for not being ‘fashion’. But what actually is fashion?
Fashion today tells stories and every brand tells its own. So the idea of fashion can no longer be linked to mere clothing. Fashion is politicised and tells different worlds. When you wear something you communicate, and the moment you communicate, then it is fashion, otherwise it is clothing.
So many designers even if they have their own brand are appointed creative directors of other maisons, like Ludovic de Saint Sernin who we were talking about earlier. Would you accept that and which brand would you like to direct?
Yes, I think it is very interesting. I would like a brand with a story in which I could dig and bring back to life that secret world. Perhaps the only silent one – far from Des Phemmes but my very first love – is Gianfranco Ferré.
Speaking about the new collection that you will present during Women’s Milan Fashion Week fall-winter 2023-24, can you give us a little sneak peek?
The autumn-winter 2023/24 is a back to basics. I went back to some elements that were present in the very first collections – much more ’90s – and tried to mix them up with what Des Phemmes is now. A conversation between the three-year-old me and the me of today.
And is this conversation endless or does it have a point?
I think it is never-ending, but because I realise that all my past comes back into my present.
How do you imagine Des Phemmes in the future?
When I created the brand my main idea was to make it a platform for women, a kind of all-female talent incubator. And I still want to realise this, but I want also keep sharing my story, tell people stories especially the ones who surround me and who are part of my life.
Interview : Flavio Marcelli
Portraits : Ludovica Arcero
